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	<title>Comments on: The Goldman bracket</title>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Danny Calegari</title>
		<link>http://lamington.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/the-goldman-bracket/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Danny Calegari]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lamington.wordpress.com/?p=550#comment-315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Peter - as you say, the issue is with pi_1 being abelian, so there   are no &quot;interesting&quot; representations. Although even in this case, if   one thinks of H^1 as the &quot;character variety&quot; of representations of   pi_1 to R, there is a symplectic form on this space coming from the   intersection pairing. At least I think this is why Goldman ignores   this case . . . 

best, 

Danny 

(ps I haven&#039;t updated my blog in a long time; I keep intending to get   around to it though) 

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Peter &#8211; as you say, the issue is with pi_1 being abelian, so there   are no &#8220;interesting&#8221; representations. Although even in this case, if   one thinks of H^1 as the &#8220;character variety&#8221; of representations of   pi_1 to R, there is a symplectic form on this space coming from the   intersection pairing. At least I think this is why Goldman ignores   this case . . . </p>
<p>best, </p>
<p>Danny </p>
<p>(ps I haven&#8217;t updated my blog in a long time; I keep intending to get   around to it though) </p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://lamington.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/the-goldman-bracket/#comment-314</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2010 23:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lamington.wordpress.com/?p=550#comment-314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Danny,

I&#039;ve been reading about the Goldman form a little bit recently and I found this blog post, which was very nice to read. I had what I assume is a stupid question: In a couple of his papers Goldman restricts to working with closed surfaces of genus g &gt; 1. Do you know why he doesn&#039;t include the torus? My impression is that it has something to do with $latex \pi_1$ being abelian, but I don&#039;t know what. Do you know if he has this restriction because the symplectic form (or corresponding Poisson bracket) don&#039;t exist, or because the character variety isn&#039;t as well-behaved?

A paper that I thought was interesting that uses this Poisson bracket is http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/search/publdoc.html?pg1=MR&amp;s1=1691437&amp;loc=fromreflist
A one-sentence summary is that the &quot;deformation quantization of the ring of functions on the character variety of $latex \pi_1$ of a surface&quot; has a natural geometric interpretation.

Peter
p.s. I was a student in your class on complex curves a few years back (winter of 04-05?), which was a nice class :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Danny,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been reading about the Goldman form a little bit recently and I found this blog post, which was very nice to read. I had what I assume is a stupid question: In a couple of his papers Goldman restricts to working with closed surfaces of genus g &gt; 1. Do you know why he doesn&#8217;t include the torus? My impression is that it has something to do with <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> being abelian, but I don&#8217;t know what. Do you know if he has this restriction because the symplectic form (or corresponding Poisson bracket) don&#8217;t exist, or because the character variety isn&#8217;t as well-behaved?</p>
<p>A paper that I thought was interesting that uses this Poisson bracket is <a href="http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/search/publdoc.html?pg1=MR&#038;s1=1691437&#038;loc=fromreflist" rel="nofollow">http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/search/publdoc.html?pg1=MR&#038;s1=1691437&#038;loc=fromreflist</a><br />
A one-sentence summary is that the &#8220;deformation quantization of the ring of functions on the character variety of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> of a surface&#8221; has a natural geometric interpretation.</p>
<p>Peter<br />
p.s. I was a student in your class on complex curves a few years back (winter of 04-05?), which was a nice class :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Calegari</title>
		<link>http://lamington.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/the-goldman-bracket/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Danny Calegari]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lamington.wordpress.com/?p=550#comment-115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Andy - thanks for the comment and the reference! I was not aware of this paper (I guess it is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=0507817&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this one&lt;/a&gt;), although I knew in a general way that Turaev has done several interesting things with the combinatorics of immersed curves on surfaces. An endlessly mysterious and fascinating subject!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andy &#8211; thanks for the comment and the reference! I was not aware of this paper (I guess it is <a href="http://www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=0507817" rel="nofollow">this one</a>), although I knew in a general way that Turaev has done several interesting things with the combinatorics of immersed curves on surfaces. An endlessly mysterious and fascinating subject!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andy P.</title>
		<link>http://lamington.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/the-goldman-bracket/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy P.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lamington.wordpress.com/?p=550#comment-114</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let&#039;s try that again and see if I can get the formulas to parse.

There&#039;s an interesting earlier (ie 1978) paper of
Turaev entitled &quot;Intersections of loops in
two-dimensional manifolds&quot;.  In that paper, he gives
an intersection pairing on $latex \pi_1$ of a surface (with
one boundary component; the basepoint is on the boundary) that
is superficially very similar to the Goldman bracket,
but actually has rather different, intriguing properties.

It is a pairing
$latex \mathbb{Z} \pi_1 \times \mathbb{Z} \pi_1 \rightarrow \mathbb{Z} \pi_1$.
Unlike the Goldman bracket, its values depend strongly on
the basepoint.  However, it interacts very well with
the group-theory of the surface group.  In particular,
it is actually a biderivation in an appropriate sense.  Even
more interestingly, I noticed when I read Turaev&#039;s paper that
it interacts well with the derived series of $latex \pi_1$.  Let
$latex S_k$ be the quotient of $latex \pi_1$ by the kth term
of its derived series, so $latex S_k$ is a k-step solvable
group.  Then Turaev&#039;s bracket descends to a pairing
$latex \mathbb{Z} S_k \times \mathbb{Z} S_k \rightarrow \mathbb{Z} S_{k-1}$.  For $latex k=1$,
we have $latex S_{k-1} = 1$ and this is just the algebraic intersection
pairing.  For the higher terms, however, we get something new.  In
particular, for $latex k=2$ we have $latex S_{k-1}$ equal to the
first homology group of the surface, so we get an &quot;intersection pairing&quot; 
on the two-step solvable truncation of $latex \pi_1$ with values in
the group ring of its first homology group!

I&#039;ve always thought that this should have nice applications
(maybe to understanding the &quot;solvable&quot; version of the Johnson
filtration of the mapping class group), but I haven&#039;t yet managed
to find any...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s try that again and see if I can get the formulas to parse.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s an interesting earlier (ie 1978) paper of<br />
Turaev entitled &#8220;Intersections of loops in<br />
two-dimensional manifolds&#8221;.  In that paper, he gives<br />
an intersection pairing on <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> of a surface (with<br />
one boundary component; the basepoint is on the boundary) that<br />
is superficially very similar to the Goldman bracket,<br />
but actually has rather different, intriguing properties.</p>
<p>It is a pairing<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cmathbb%7BZ%7D+%5Cpi_1+%5Ctimes+%5Cmathbb%7BZ%7D+%5Cpi_1+%5Crightarrow+%5Cmathbb%7BZ%7D+%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;mathbb{Z} &#92;pi_1 &#92;times &#92;mathbb{Z} &#92;pi_1 &#92;rightarrow &#92;mathbb{Z} &#92;pi_1' title='&#92;mathbb{Z} &#92;pi_1 &#92;times &#92;mathbb{Z} &#92;pi_1 &#92;rightarrow &#92;mathbb{Z} &#92;pi_1' class='latex' />.<br />
Unlike the Goldman bracket, its values depend strongly on<br />
the basepoint.  However, it interacts very well with<br />
the group-theory of the surface group.  In particular,<br />
it is actually a biderivation in an appropriate sense.  Even<br />
more interestingly, I noticed when I read Turaev&#8217;s paper that<br />
it interacts well with the derived series of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' />.  Let<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='S_k' title='S_k' class='latex' /> be the quotient of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> by the kth term<br />
of its derived series, so <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='S_k' title='S_k' class='latex' /> is a k-step solvable<br />
group.  Then Turaev&#8217;s bracket descends to a pairing<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cmathbb%7BZ%7D+S_k+%5Ctimes+%5Cmathbb%7BZ%7D+S_k+%5Crightarrow+%5Cmathbb%7BZ%7D+S_%7Bk-1%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;mathbb{Z} S_k &#92;times &#92;mathbb{Z} S_k &#92;rightarrow &#92;mathbb{Z} S_{k-1}' title='&#92;mathbb{Z} S_k &#92;times &#92;mathbb{Z} S_k &#92;rightarrow &#92;mathbb{Z} S_{k-1}' class='latex' />.  For <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%3D1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='k=1' title='k=1' class='latex' />,<br />
we have <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S_%7Bk-1%7D+%3D+1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='S_{k-1} = 1' title='S_{k-1} = 1' class='latex' /> and this is just the algebraic intersection<br />
pairing.  For the higher terms, however, we get something new.  In<br />
particular, for <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%3D2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='k=2' title='k=2' class='latex' /> we have <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S_%7Bk-1%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='S_{k-1}' title='S_{k-1}' class='latex' /> equal to the<br />
first homology group of the surface, so we get an &#8220;intersection pairing&#8221;<br />
on the two-step solvable truncation of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> with values in<br />
the group ring of its first homology group!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always thought that this should have nice applications<br />
(maybe to understanding the &#8220;solvable&#8221; version of the Johnson<br />
filtration of the mapping class group), but I haven&#8217;t yet managed<br />
to find any&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andy P.</title>
		<link>http://lamington.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/the-goldman-bracket/#comment-113</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy P.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lamington.wordpress.com/?p=550#comment-113</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s an interesting earlier (ie 1978) paper of
Turaev entitled &quot;Intersections of loops in
two-dimensional manifolds&quot;.  In that paper, he gives
an intersection pairing on $latex \pi_1$ of a surface (with
one boundary component; the basepoint is on the boundary) that
is superficially very similar to the Goldman bracket,
but actually has rather different, intriguing properties.

It is a pairing
$latex \Z \pi_1 \times \Z \pi_1 \rightarrow \Z \pi_1$.
Unlike the Goldman bracket, its values depend strongly on
the basepoint.  However, it interacts very well with
the group-theory of the surface group.  In particular,
it is actually a biderivation in an appropriate sense.  Even
more interestingly, I noticed when I read Turaev&#039;s paper that
it interacts well with the derived series of $latex \pi_1$.  Let
$latex S_k$ be the quotient of $latex \pi_1$ by the kth term
of its derived series, so $\latex S_k$ is a k-step solvable
group.  Then Turaev&#039;s bracket descends to a pairing
$latex \Z S_k \times \Z S_k \rightarrow \Z S_{k-1}$.  For $latex k=1$,
we have $latex S_{k-1} = 1$ and this is just the algebraic intersection
pairing.  For the higher terms, however, we get something new.  In
particular, for $latex k=2$ we have $latex S_{k-1}$ equal to the
first homology group of the surface, so we get an &quot;intersection pairing&quot; 
on the two-step solvable truncation of $latex \pi_1$ with values in
the group ring of its first homology group!

I&#039;ve always thought that this should have nice applications
(maybe to understanding the &quot;solvable&quot; version of the Johnson
filtration of the mapping class group), but I haven&#039;t yet managed
to find any...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s an interesting earlier (ie 1978) paper of<br />
Turaev entitled &#8220;Intersections of loops in<br />
two-dimensional manifolds&#8221;.  In that paper, he gives<br />
an intersection pairing on <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> of a surface (with<br />
one boundary component; the basepoint is on the boundary) that<br />
is superficially very similar to the Goldman bracket,<br />
but actually has rather different, intriguing properties.</p>
<p>It is a pairing<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5CZ+%5Cpi_1+%5Ctimes+%5CZ+%5Cpi_1+%5Crightarrow+%5CZ+%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;Z &#92;pi_1 &#92;times &#92;Z &#92;pi_1 &#92;rightarrow &#92;Z &#92;pi_1' title='&#92;Z &#92;pi_1 &#92;times &#92;Z &#92;pi_1 &#92;rightarrow &#92;Z &#92;pi_1' class='latex' />.<br />
Unlike the Goldman bracket, its values depend strongly on<br />
the basepoint.  However, it interacts very well with<br />
the group-theory of the surface group.  In particular,<br />
it is actually a biderivation in an appropriate sense.  Even<br />
more interestingly, I noticed when I read Turaev&#8217;s paper that<br />
it interacts well with the derived series of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' />.  Let<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S_k&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='S_k' title='S_k' class='latex' /> be the quotient of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> by the kth term<br />
of its derived series, so $\latex S_k$ is a k-step solvable<br />
group.  Then Turaev&#8217;s bracket descends to a pairing<br />
<img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5CZ+S_k+%5Ctimes+%5CZ+S_k+%5Crightarrow+%5CZ+S_%7Bk-1%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;Z S_k &#92;times &#92;Z S_k &#92;rightarrow &#92;Z S_{k-1}' title='&#92;Z S_k &#92;times &#92;Z S_k &#92;rightarrow &#92;Z S_{k-1}' class='latex' />.  For <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%3D1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='k=1' title='k=1' class='latex' />,<br />
we have <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S_%7Bk-1%7D+%3D+1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='S_{k-1} = 1' title='S_{k-1} = 1' class='latex' /> and this is just the algebraic intersection<br />
pairing.  For the higher terms, however, we get something new.  In<br />
particular, for <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=k%3D2&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='k=2' title='k=2' class='latex' /> we have <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=S_%7Bk-1%7D&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='S_{k-1}' title='S_{k-1}' class='latex' /> equal to the<br />
first homology group of the surface, so we get an &#8220;intersection pairing&#8221;<br />
on the two-step solvable truncation of <img src='http://s0.wp.com/latex.php?latex=%5Cpi_1&amp;bg=ffffff&amp;fg=545454&amp;s=0' alt='&#92;pi_1' title='&#92;pi_1' class='latex' /> with values in<br />
the group ring of its first homology group!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always thought that this should have nice applications<br />
(maybe to understanding the &#8220;solvable&#8221; version of the Johnson<br />
filtration of the mapping class group), but I haven&#8217;t yet managed<br />
to find any&#8230;</p>
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